| Minutes: | LICENSING SUB COMMITTEE 13th SEPTEMBER 2005 Minutes of the meeting of the Licensing Sub Committee of Flintshire County Council held at County Hall, Mold, Flintshire on Tuesday, 13th September, 2005 PRESENT: Councillor L.A. Sharps (Chairman) Councillors S.R. Baker and J.F. Jones. OFFICERS OF FLINTSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL Principal Solicitor, Licensing Manager and Principal Administration Officer. APPLICANT: Mr. Brett Williamson, Solicitor acting for Grosvenor Social Club, Mr. B. Strefford Secretary to the Club. INTERESTED PARTIES Miss D. Dickinson accompanied by Mr. C. Dickinson.
LICENSING SUB COMMITTEE 13th SEPTEMBER, 2005 Minutes of the meeting of the Licensing Sub Committee of Flintshire County Council held at County Hall, Mold on Tuesday, 13th September, 2005. PRESENT: Councillor L. A. Sharps (Chairman) Councillor S.R. Baker. OFFICERS OF FLINTSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL: Principal Solicitor, Litigation, Licensing Manager and Senior Administration Officer. RESPONSIBLE AUTHORITIES - REPRESENTATIVE: Sgt. A. Massey, North Wales Police. APPLICANTS/AGENTS: Mr. C. Moulson on behalf of Punch Taverns plc. INTERESTED PARTIES: Councillor D. A. Parry, Queensferry Community Council.
1. DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST None were received.
1. DECLARATIONS OF INTERESTS None were received
2. REPORT OF THE DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENT AND REGENERATION The Sub Committee considered the report of the Director of Environment & Regeneration which was presented by the Licensing Manager in respect of an application for a premises licence for The Grosvenor Social Club, Jubilee Street, Shotton.
2. REPORT OF THE DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENT AND REGENERATION The Sub-Committee considered the report of the Director of Environment & Regeneration which was presented by the Licensing Manager in respect of an application for a premises licence for the Lifeboat, Sandycroft.
3. THE APPLICATION – The Lifeboat, Phoenix Street, Sandycroft, Deeside An application for a premises licence was submitted by Ford & Warren Solicitors on behalf of Punch Taverns plc. The premises were described as a detached building in the village of Sandycroft operating as a public house. It was a two room operation with an outside drinking area. The outlet had a small car park to the rear. The premises operated to the standard hours of 11:00am to 11:00pm Monday to Saturday and noon to 10:30pm on Sunday. Recorded music or live music by a single performer or two performers together was permitted by the Licensing Act 1964 Section 182 dispensation. The Licensee was Ms Symone Marion Portal Preece. The hours proposed for the sale of alcohol were:- Monday to Thursday - 11:00am to midnight Friday and Saturday - 11:00am to 01:00am the following morning Sunday - Noon to midnight The closing time was proposed as 30 minutes after the above times. All the above times were also for recorded music, live music limited to 3 performers and karaoke. A further additional hour was proposed over Bank Holiday weekends, Christmas Eve and Boxing Day.
3. THE APPLICATION - Grosvenor Social Club, Shotton. An application for a Club Premises Certificate (conversion and variation) was made by E.A. Harris & Co. Solicitors on behalf of Grosvenor Social Club Limited, Jubilee Street, Shotton. The Club was established in 1911 and had been at the current premises since that year. It provided facilities for members and their guests comprising of a committee room, TV room, concert room, seating area, 2 snooker tables and a games room. It currently supplied alcohol within the standard hours of 11:00 am to 11:00 pm Monday to Friday and noon to 10:30 on Saturday. Music, dancing and indoor sports facilities were also provided for members and their guests. The proposed hours for supply of alcohol were as follows:- Sunday to Thursday 11:00 am to 11:00 pm Friday to Saturday 10:00 am to 01:00 am the following morning Bank Holidays 10:30 am to 12:30 am the following morning The above times would also be for live and recorded music and dancing. The Licensing Act 2003 did not require the opening hours of the premises to be specified. The premises operated in accordance with its Club Rules and the Secretary was Mr. Brian Strefford. The application was advertised in the required manner.
4. BACKGROUND The application had been advertised and there had been no representations from the North Wales Police, North Wales Fire and Rescue Service and Flintshire County Council’s Environmental Health Department.
4. BACKGROUND The application had been advertised.
5. PROMOTION OF LICENSING OBJECTIVES The Club’s proposals were attached as Appendix 1 to the report.
5. PROMOTION OF THE LICENSING OBJECTIVES The applicants’ proposals were attached as Appendix 1 to the report.
6. INTERESTED PARTY REPRESENTATIONS Representations had been made by persons living in the vicinity of the premises and these were attached as Appendix 2 to the report.
6. NOTICES AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS Representations had been made by the North Wales Police and the Pollution Control Section of Flintshire County Council’s Environmental Health Department. These were shown at Appendix 2 and 3 to the report respectively. Representations were received from Queensferry Community Council who was acting as a body representing persons living in the vicinity. These were shown as Appendix 4.
7. SUBMISSION OF DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE/REQUEST TO CROSS EXAMINE The Chairman asked questions as determined in the procedure:- (a) The applicants confirmed that they had no additional information to submit. (b) The representative of the North Wales Police indicated that he had no additional information to submit. (c) The representative of the interested parties indicated that he had no additional information to submit. (d) All parties requested the opportunity to cross examine, if necessary.
7. SUBMISSION OF DOCUMENTORY EVIDENCE / REQUEST TO CROSS EXAMINE The Chairman asked the questions as determined in the procedure:- (a) The applicant confirmed that they wished to supply an additional letter in support of the application. (b) The spokesperson confirmed that they had no additional information to provide. (c) Both parties requested the opportunity to cross examine, if necessary.
8. HEARING AND DETERMINATION OF THE APPLICATION The Chair advised that the Sub-Committee would proceed to hear and determine the application by reference to the four Licensing Objectives.
8. HEARING AND DETERMINATION OF THE APPLICATION The Chairman advised that the Sub Committee would proceed to hear and determine the application by reference to the four licensing objectives.
9. FURTHER INFORMATION The Chairman asked the Licensing Officer to confirm whether or not there was anything further to add to the papers in front of the Committee. The Licensing Manager confirmed that there was not.
9. FURTHER INFORMATION The Chairman asked the Licensing Officer to confirm whether or not there was anything further to add to the papers in front of the Sub-Committee. The Licensing Manager confirmed that there was not.
10. PRESENTATION BY APPLICANT The Chairman invited the applicant to present the application. Mr Moulson declined to do so with the view to outlining his main points during the summing up process.
10. SERVICE OF NOTICE The Licensing Manager confirmed that all relevant notices had been served.
11. PRESENTATION BY APPLICANT The Chairman invited the applicant and her representative to present the Application. Following a request by the Licensing Manger the application confirmed the hours requested in the application. Mr. Brett Williamson presented the application. Mr. Williamson indicated that this was a member nominated club and great care was taken to run the premises in a proper way as they did not wish to lose their club status. He advised the Sub Committee that this was not a place which generally attracted the younger clientele and it was not necessarily the intention to open to the full extent of the hours if the application was agreed. He suggested that the hours would only be used if there was a special occasion such as a retirement party or similar. Mr. Williamson commented that the Social Club took a responsible attitude to maintaining order at closing times and had installed CCTV cameras as an additional security measure for special occasions and registered door supervisors were employed. In illustrating the responsible attitude to noise he advised that sound proofing and been installed in the concert room during 2003. With regard to taxis collecting clients from the premises Mr. Williamson indicated that members were encouraged to use an identified local taxi firm whose drivers had been told not to sound their horns when collecting their passengers. Mr. B. Strefford who was the club secretary advised that during his 10 years of office he had never received a complaint of noise or anti-social behaviour. In support of these comments he produced a letter of support received from a former Chairman of Flintshire County Council. It was also reported that the Club had obtained sound measuring devices and the areas where they had taken readings. Mr. Williamson concluded that it was in the interests of the Club to ensure that the premises were properly run and without disturbance because of the review procedure in place. He hoped that the proposal for increased hours would result in people leaving the premises gradually and not all at the same time which was consistent with the Government’s intentions.
11. REPRESENTATIONS BY RESPONSIBLE AUTHORITIES North Wales Police Sgt. A. Massey, on behalf of North Wales Police said the representation was made by the Police under the Licensing Objective(s) of Prevention of Public Nuisance. He felt the supply of alcohol and provision of music and entertainment on Friday and Saturday should end at midnight and the premises should close to the public no later than 12.30am in line with the remaining days of the week. The representation was due to the very close proximity of many residential properties and the submission that persons leaving the premises at a late hour may reasonably cause a noise nuisance or disturbance to local residents. There were pensioner’s bungalows at the side of the premises, which backed on to the car park. There were also flats directly opposite the pub on what was a narrow residential street. There were no complaints against the premises that Sgt. Massey was aware of but if the licence was granted, it was likely there would be complaints in the future of noise from the premises. These complaints would be addressed to the Police as they would most likely be late at night when it would be unlikely that anyone would be available from the Local Authority to address the problems. Therefore, it could possibly impact on police resources. In making his comments, Sgt. Massey referred to the guidelines issues by the Department of Culture, Media and Sports, paragraphs 7.19, 7.39 and 7.40 and the Council’s own policy, paragraphs 1.9, 1.10 and 10.4. Pollution Control Manager The Pollution Control Manager said no specific complaints had been made to the Council regarding the premises. However, he had received a letter from the Clerk to Queensferry Community Council in June 2005 regarding light pollution nuisance and nuisance being caused to residents from the noise level from the pub. Following receipt of the letter from the Community Council, he visited the premises and commented that the property was close to residential premises. It had large single glazed windows to three sides and was served by simple extractor fans with no apparent acoustic suppression. Therefore, he felt there was a potential adverse affect of entertainment noise on residents in the additional hours proposed. If the music was to go on longer than was the current situation, it would prove a potential nuisance to neighbours. Without a full acoustic survey being carried out he felt it was not feasible to operate the premises under control, particularly late at night.
12. REPRESENTATIONS BY INTERESTED PARTIES Miss L. Dickinson made a representation as an interested party. In opening her presentation Miss Dickinson stressed that this was not a personal vendetta against the club and advised that there had been some confusion in the area regarding whether this was in fact a new club certificate or a variation. In pursing her point Miss Dickinson referred to what she understood was the main objectives of the Licensing Act and whether this application complied with those aims. She referred to the letter dated 7th August 2005 which had been enclosed with the papers for consideration by the Sub Committee and the number of persons who had signed that letter as interested parties. She commented upon the difficulties with taxis as there were a number of different operators within the Deeside area all of which she suggested could be contacted to collect passengers from the premises. She also indicated that although the application address was identified as Jubilee Street the access was via Nelson Street with the vast majority of vehicles attending the premises going through that area. Miss Dickinson referred to a number of persons who had signed the letter and their personal circumstances which she said were affected by noise from the premises. Whilst acknowledging that sound proofing may have been installed she referred to incidents in the summer on hot evenings when doors of the premises had been left open with noise which could be heard late into the evening. She suggested that this would be exacerbated if there was an extension of the hours. Miss Dickinson also commented that there were certain occasions when non members were allowed into the premises. She also suggested that on occasions there had been vandalism in the street following parties in the club. She advised that it had not been possible to pursue these issues as there was no proof who had caused the damage because it had not been discovered until the following day. Miss Dickinson also indicated that there were other residents who were prepared to sign the letter supporting the objections but were in fact on only holiday when it was being prepared. Local residents were also concerned about the effect that it could have on shift workers and people with young children. She indicated there was no real objection to extensions on specific evenings such as New Years Eve because this was generally accepted by residents but there was concern for a continuation of the hours later in the evening on a regular basis. She concluded her presentation indicating that in her opinion the application would not meet the Licensing Objectives relative to public nuisance and prevention of crime and disorder.
12. REPRESENTATIONS BY INTERESTED PARTIES Councillor D. A. Parry of Queensferry Community Council informed the Sub Committee that he represented the Council on behalf of local residents in the vicinity of the Lifeboat public house. He explained the vicinity of the premises and the close proximity to houses which were primarily occupied by senior citizens, particularly the bungalows which were adjacent to the beer garden. It was the view of those people that the noise levels would increase from what was already a problem, and of which complaints had been received, if the licence was granted. Councillor Parry advised that he had been informed the Lifeboat would be changing licensees in the near future which was also a concern of local residents as this seemed to be something of a trend for that particular premises.
13. FINAL PRESENTATIONS (a) Applicant Mr Moulson said he had listened to the statements of the interested parties and the responsible authorities and said that neither were discussing real specifics in terms of current complaints and that all representations were based more on future potential. He referred to 5.69 Section 182 of the Act which stated that a condition could not be attached to a license on an aspirational point which he felt was the case in terms of the representations made. Regarding the points raised by North Wales Police, he felt the views related to the perception of what may happen in the future and in the submission by the Police, it was stated that there were no records of incidents at the premises in question. He referred to the Governments support of longer opening hours and the possibility that it could reduce the number of nuisance problems. Paragraph 6.10 under 182 of the Act said the general principle was to support later closing times so customers could leave when they chose and therefore disperse in a more orderly manner. He felt that risk could not be speculated at this point. Regarding the submission from Flintshire County Council’s Environmental Health Department, again he stated that no complaints had been received. Mr Moulson recognised that people leaving premises could cause disturbances and offered the display of signs on the premises in question asking customers to leave quietly. He also offered that the entertainment on a Friday and Saturday night would cease at midnight, with the sale of alcohol until 01:00am if the licence was agreed. In response to a question by Councillor Parry, Mr Moulson said he was not aware of any changes to the licensee of the premises and stated that Punch Taverns recognised that continuity was beneficial for running a business. Punch Taverns had invested heavily into the premises in the last 12 months and that would not be undertaken without a view of a stable future. The Pollution Control Manager asked if any assessment of noise breakout had been carried out on the premises, if there were proposals to duct the venting and if there was any intention to provide double glazing. In response, Mr Moulson said he was not aware of any assessments of noise breakouts and there was not a proposal to duct the venting. Also, there were no plans to provide double glazing as there was no proven history of problems at this outlet. It was not about what could happen in the future but if at any stage there was a requirement to revisit the issues raised then it would be looked at. Similarly, if noise levels increased, local residents could report any incidents to the Council’s Environmental Health Department as any license agreed was subject to review if it was deemed that any of the four licensing objectives were not being met. He reiterated his proposal to cease entertainment at midnight on Friday and Saturday nights and for the display of signs requesting that customers leave quietly. The Chairman asked Councillor Parry of Queensferry Community Council what the current situation was regarding noise disturbance who reported that fireworks were at the premises at 11pm the previous week. Councillor Parry added that he would ensure that he would gather and retain specific information of any future problems. (b) North Wales Police Sgt. Massey said he had nothing further to add. The Chairman asked for confirmation that no complaints had been made, which was verified, and explained that unless a complaint was made, the Sub Committee must ignore circumstantial evidence. Sgt. Massey reiterated his earlier point that if there was a requirement to attend the location, it would detract policing from other areas. (c) Pollution Control Manager The Pollution Control Manager of Flintshire County Council’s Environmental Health Department said the offer of ceasing entertainment at midnight rather than 01:00am was beneficial to the original concerns voiced but there were still concerns regarding the structure of the building in dealing with the noise. He thought the company would have given more thought to the construction of the premises. (c) Interested Parties Councillor Parry of Queensferry Community Council said he had nothing further to add.
13. QUESTIONS TO INTERESTED PARTIES Mr. Williamson enquired how long Miss Dickinson had lived at the premises and she advised for 23 years. Mr. Williamson commented that the premises had been in existence since 1911 and he also sought clarification on who had been invited to comment on the application and in particular the fact that there was no representation from numbers 39 – 71 Nelson Street which he felt would have been relevant. Miss Dickinson indicated that she did not know the people living at these premises. Miss Dickinson earlier had commented upon the fact that the notice of intention was not easily viewed. Mr. Williamson also sought clarification on the damage referred to by Miss Williamson relating to gardens walls and car wing mirrors. She indicated that she could give the name of a property for the garden wall and that there had been at least two occasions when wing mirrors had been damaged and referred to a particular instance involving her brother’s car. Miss Dickinson confirmed her earlier comments that it had not been possible to pinpoint the person who had damaged the vehicles but the incidents had occurred late in the evening coinciding with functions at the premises. It was generally accepted that there were parking difficulties on what was a narrow road. Mr. Williamson again referred to the fact that there had been no representations from the Flintshire County Council’s Noise Pollution Control Section. Miss Dickinson enquired where the CCTV cameras were situated at the premises and it was confirmed that the monitors where behind the bar and could be seen by members to see if their taxi had arrived in the car park. Miss Dickinson indicated that she had not addressed the club about the issues of vandalism because she felt there was no point as they did not have the responsibility for addressing those areas. Mr. Strefford the club secretary indicated that if incidents had been brought to the club’s attention they would have been investigated. In referring to parties at the premises he advised that they were only allowed to be booked by members of the club who were responsible for their guests. If there was an incident action would be taken by the club against that member. With regard to the incident of public disorder it was confirmed that there was an incident some two years ago. Mr. Strefford expanded upon the operation of the equipment to control noise at the premises and where readings had taken place. In referring to the comments of Miss Dickinson the club’s application was made in the name of Jubilee Street because that was the postal address and was identified as such on all legal documents. Mr. Strefford also explained the procedure in place when entertainers where performing whereby the fire doors and entrance doors would be kept shut when music was playing. He also indicated that following comments made earlier by Miss Dickinson that there should not be any music played after midnight. Councillor Baker sought confirmation from Miss Dickinson if she had in fact complained to the Police on any occasion and she reiterated her earlier point on this issue. The Chairman enquired the age range of the members of the club and it was confirmed that it was the older age range although there was some encouragement for younger members to join to assist its long term viability. It was confirmed that there was no juke box or similar on the premises and that there were very few youngsters who in fact were members. The club secretary Mr. Strefford confirmed that 18th and 21st birthday parties were allowed when they had been booked by club members and they were usually their children. In concluding Mr. Williamson stressed that there was no application for an extension throughout the week and Miss Dickinson confirmed that her only objection was to the variation and not to the licence.
14. DETERMINATION OF APPLICATION The Chairman adjourned the proceedings and asked all to leave with the exception of Committee Members, Principal Solicitor and the Clerk.
14. DETERMINATION OF APPLICATION The Chairman adjourned the proceedings and asked all to leave with the exception of Committee Members, Principal Solicitor and the Clerk.
15. DECISION The Sub Committee agreed that the application be granted in accordance with the following terms and conditions: Supply of Alcohol and Regulated Entertainment Monday to Thursday - 11:00am to midnight Friday and Saturday - 11:00am to 01:00am the following morning Sunday - Noon to midnight The closing time shall be 30 minutes after the above times. Signs shall be placed at each exit requesting that customers leave the premises quietly and respect the needs of local residents. The Chairman reminded Councillor Parry that under the Environmental Health legislation, the local authority had a statutory obligation to investigate any complaints of nuisance and had the necessary powers to take action in respect of excessive noise.
15. DECISION The Sub-Committee agreed the following conditions:- Supply of Alcohol and Regulated Entertainment Sunday - 11:00 am to 10:30 pm Monday to Thursday - 11:00 am to 11:00 pm Friday and Saturday - 10:00 am to 01:00 am the following morning Christmas Day - 11:00 am to Midnight Bank Holidays - 10:30 am to 12:30 am the following morning New Year’s Eve - 10:00 am to 01:00 am the following morning Notices Notices are to be placed at exits requesting members and visitors to leave the premises quietly and to respect the needs of residents in the area.
16. REASONS (i) The nature and location of the premises. (ii) No recorded complaints from Environmental Health and North Wales Police. Approved Date Licensing Sub Committee - 1084 -
16. REASONS (i) That no recorded complaints from either Environmental Health or North Wales Police had been received; and (ii) The nature and size of the premises. Approved DateLicensing Sub Committee - 768 - |
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