| Minutes: | LICENSING SUB COMMITTEE 14th SEPTEMBER, 2005 Minutes of the meeting of the Licensing Sub Committee of Flintshire County Council held in County Hall, Mold, Flintshire on Wednesday 14th September, 2005. PRESENT: Councillor L.A. Sharps (Chairman) Councillors A.G. Diskin and M.G. Wright OFFICERS OF FLINTSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL Assistant County Secretary, Licensing Manager and Principal Administration Officer RESPONSIBLE AUTHORITIES - REPRESENTATIVES Sgt. Andy Massey - North Wales Police Mr. Andrew Fuller - Pollution Control Manager, Flintshire County Council APPLICANT/AGENTS Mr. Malcolm Roberts (Applicant) represented by Mr. Brett Stevenson
LICENSING SUB COMMITTEE 14th SEPTEMBER, 2005 Minutes of the meeting Licensing Sub Committee of Flintshire County Council held on Wednesday, 14th September, 2005 in County Hall, Mold, Flintshire. PRESENT: Councillors S.R. Baker, A.G. Diskin and J. Ovens OFFICERS OF FLINTSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL: County Secretary, Licensing Manager and Principal Administration Officer. RESPONSIBLE AUTHORITIES - REPRESENTATIVES: No representatives were present. APPLICANT/AGENTS Mr. D.G. Bartley of Clement Jones, Solicitors and Mr. P. Bellis. RESOLVED That Councillor A.G. Diskin be appointed Chairman for this meeting of the Sub-Committee.
1. DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST There were no declarations of interest.
1. DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST None were received
2. INTERESTED PARTIES Mr. K. Thompson.
2. REPORT OF THE DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENT AND REGENERATION The Sub Committee considered the report of the Director of Environment & Regeneration which was presented by the Licensing Manager in respect of an application for a premises licence for The Cross Keys, Chester Road, Buckley.
3. REPORT OF THE DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENT AND REGENERATION The Sub Committee considered the report of the Director of Environment & Regeneration which was presented by the Licensing Manager in respect of an application for a Premises License for Northop Hall Cricket and Hockey Club.
3. THE APPLICATION - The Cross Keys, Chester Road, Buckley An application for a premises licence (conversion and variation) was made by Spirit Group Limited. The premises was described as operating as a public house selling alcohol for consumption both on and off the premises It had a ground floor open plan layout and a first floor function room. The premises operated to the standard licensing hours of 11:00 am to 11:00 pm Monday to Saturday and noon to 10:30 pm on Sunday. A public entertainment licence was in force permitting music, singing and dancing to the same hours. A video licence under the Cinemas Act 1985 was also in force. The hours proposed for the supply of alcohol were:- Sunday to Wednesday - 10:00 am to midnight Thursday to Saturday - 10:00 am to 01:00 the following morning It was proposed that the premises closed one hour later. A further hour was proposed for Bank Holiday weekends, Saints Days and on occasions of local, national or international significance (with prior notice and agreement of the Police). The above hours were also proposed for regulated entertainment in the form of films, live music, recorded music, facilities for dancing and late night refreshment. The licensee was Mr. Malcolm John Roberts.
4. BACKGROUND The application was advertised in the required manner.
4. THE APPLICATION- Northop Hall Cricket and Hockey Club An application for a Club Premises Certificate (conversion and variation) had been submitted by Clement Jones, Solicitors on behalf of the Club. The premises was described as a cricket and hockey club house operating as a registered club. It had changing rooms, a players’ lounge and a function room for the use of members and guests. The current operating hours were:- Monday to Friday - 6.30 pm – 11.00 pm Saturday - 1.00 pm – 11.00 pm Sunday - Noon – 10.30 pm The proposed hours for supply of alcohol were:- Noon to midnight - 7 days a week The same hours were requested for recorded music. Live music and facilities for dancing was proposed from 7.00 p.m. to midnight. The Club operated to a set of Club Rules and the Secretary was Mr. Thomas Martin Richardson. Background The application had been advertised in the required manner.
5. PROMOTION OF LICENSING OBJECTIVES The applicant’s proposals were attached as Appendix 1 to the report.
5. PROMOTION OF LICENSING OBJECTIVES The steps the company intended to take were shown as Appendix 1 to the report
6. NOTICES AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION Representations had been received from persons living in the vicinity and these were attached as Appendix 2 to the report.
6. REPRESENTATIONS BY RESPONSIBLE AUTHORITIES Representations had been received from North Wales Police and were shown as Appendix 2. Representations had been received from the Pollution Control Section of Flintshire County Council’s Environmental Health Department and were shown as Appendix 3.
7. INTERESTED PARTY REPRESENTATIONS Representations were received from persons living in the vicinity and these were shown at Appendix 4.
7. SUBMISSION OF DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE/REQUEST TO CROSS EXAMINE The Chairman asked the questions as determined in the procedure:- (a) Mr. D.G. Bartley, on behalf of the applicant, indicated that he would be challenging the legality of a point in the meeting. (b) The representative of the interested parties indicated that he had no additional information to submit. (c) Both parties requested the opportunity to cross-examine if necessary.
8. HEARING AND DETERMINATION OF THE APPLICATION The Chairman advised that the Sub Committee would proceed to hear and determine the application by reference to the four licensing objectives and that each party would be granted up to twenty minutes to exercise their rights.
8. NOTICES AND SUPPORTIVE DOCUMENTATION The Licensing Officer confirmed that all relevant notices and supporting documents had been issued
9. FURTHER INFORMATION The Chairman asked the Licensing Manager to confirm whether or not there was anything further to add to the papers in front of the Sub Committee. The Licensing Manager confirmed that there was not.
9. SUBMISSION OF DOCUMENTORY EVIDENCE/REQUEST TO CROSS- EXAMINE The Chairman asked the questions as determined in the procedure:- (a) The applicants confirmed that they had no additional information to submit. (b) The representative of Flintshire County Council’s Environmental Health Department indicated that he had no additional information to submit. (c) All parties requested the opportunity to cross-examine, if necessary. The Sub Committee agreed to the request of the parties to cross-examine.
10. HEARING AND DETERMINATION OF THE APPLICATION The Chair advised that the Sub-Committee would proceed to hear and determine the application by reference to the four Licensing Objectives and each party would be granted up to 20 minutes to exercise their rights.
10. PRESENTATION BY THE APPLICANT Mr. D.G. Bartley presented the application and indicated that the request was for only an extra hour and it was unlikely that this would be used from Monday to Thursday. On the rare occasions that it would be used it would avoid the need to apply for a Temporary Event Licence. He indicated that a Friday and a Saturday was the busier time and that it was hoped with the longer licensing hours, if they were granted, would stagger the times when people left the premises and hopefully would reduce the noise. At this stage Mr. Bartley referred to his earlier comments regarding the situation concerning a legal point and he was advised that it could be raised now. The thrust of his concern related to the definition of “public” nuisance and its relation to what was defined in the Licensing Act 2003. He expanded upon his interpretation of “private” and “public” nuisance. The County Secretary advised if he wished to call evidence he should do it now. After an exchange between the County Secretary and Mr. Bartley regarding the interpretation of this definition Mr. Bartley concluded that he would not pursue that aspect any further. Mr. Thompson’s view was that a nuisance was a nuisance and from the interested parties’ perspective the definition was immaterial.
11. FURTHER INFORMATION The Chairman asked the Licensing Officer to confirm whether or not there was anything further to add to the papers in front of the Sub-Committee. He confirmed that there was not.
11. INTERESTED PARTIES Mr. Thompson, in opening his presentation, indicated that he was speaking on behalf of Mr. Malcolm Davies, Mr. Geoff Evans and Mr. Richard Salisbury who had submitted written observations in addition to his own, but who were unable to be present at the meeting. Mr. Thompson referred to noise nuisance, particularly arising from parties held at the premises and with people waiting for taxis to pick them up and the ensuing noise when the taxis arrived, by sounding their horns. He also referred to bottles being in hedgerows near the premises. He indicated the noise of music from the premises was also very loud. Mr. Thompson suggested that there is always a certain acceptance that there would be noise from such premises at the weekend and had not formally pursued complaints because of that. He also referred to the fact that there were other licensed establishments near the premises who were also open late at night. The thrust of his concern was the extension of those hours when music could be played until later in the night on weekdays. He was concerned for people who would have to go to work the following day and be disturbed by this noise. The Chairman enquired if Mr. Thompson had contacted the Club. He indicated that he had done so on one occasion but there was no one in authority present. Mr. Bartley enquired if Mr. Thompson had formally raised complaints relating to the premises and Mr. Thompson confirmed that this was the first opportunity that a formal complaint had been made. He also enquired if Mr. Thompson was a member of the Club and he indicated that he was some years previously. He confirmed that he had no cause for complaint at that time because the Club was managed in a different way. Mr. Thompson reiterated the thrust of his concerns related to noise emanating from the premises. Mr. Bartley referred to his earlier comments and reiterated that the use of the extended hours on Monday to Thursday would be few and far between. However, Mr. Thompson was concerned that once the facility was there it could be used at any time. Reference was made to another person who had raised a complaint and the County Secretary advised that that person was not in the vicinity defined under the terms of the Licensing Act 2003 and therefore was not in a position to complain. The Chairman sought clarification if there had been any comments received from North Wales Police or the Environmental Health Department and it was confirmed that there had not.
12. FINAL PRESENTATION/QUESTIONS Mr. D.G. Bartley indicated that the Club had been operating within the terms of the Act since 1964 and explained its status as a club rather than a public house. He indicated there had been no Police objections to the application and the wide powers of the Licensing Act. He referred to proposals to move the location of the front door which would perhaps ease the problems. With regard to taxi drivers he felt that that was not a matter for the Licensee of the premises. He also offered for a limited number of functions to be held between Sunday and Thursday throughout the year and these could be registered, which would be open to inspection. However the County Secretary was not certain whether such a provision could be allowed within the terms of the Act. Mr. Thompson, referred to earlier points made at the meeting and his comments that a nuisance was a nuisance to residents and that longer drinking hours would only exacerbate that problem. The Chairman gave a brief summary of the review procedure relative to applications of this nature.
12. REPRESENTATIVE OF INTERESTED PARTIES Mrs. N. Towell indicated that she would be speaking on behalf of local residents who had made representations regarding the application.
13. DETERMINATION OF THE APPLICATION The Chairman adjourned the proceedings and asked all to leave with the exception of Committee Members, County Secretary and Clerk.
13. PRESENTATION BY APPLICANT In opening his presentation Mr. Stevenson indicated that following negotiations with North Wales Police it was agreed that the application would be amended to comply with their recommended times. For the benefit of the Sub Committee he read these out. Mr. Stevenson continued that the premises was a community based public house and the applicant had been the licensee for 8 years with many years in the licensing trade. He confirmed that the licensee lived above the premises and that his children stayed alternate weekends and in the circumstances it was in his interests to limit noise from the premises. In 2002, following an application for a public entertainment licence and discussions with Environmental Health substantial works were done to the premises including a limiter system, installed to limit the noise from the premises. The limiter system could not be bypassed. The premises was secondary glazed and the windows could not be opened. He indicated that the beer garden closed at 7:00 pm and that the door to that area was alarmed and shut at night and did not get opened. However the applicant had accepted on the odd occasions it had been opened when it had been particularly hot in the premises. However the air conditioning system would address this problem. Mr. Stevenson indicated that the applicant had obtained a public entertainment licence in October 2002 and up until June 2005 no formal complaints had been received by Environmental Health. However he referred to two complaints which had been lodged on the 13th and 28th June 2005. It appeared that doors and windows had been open on that night. Reference was made to a visit of an Environmental Health Officer who indicated that he could hear noise in the street at 10:30 pm. The Officer had tried to contact the person in the house but this had not been possible. Mr. Stevenson indicated that having discussed the issue with Mr. Fuller it may be necessary for a re-assessment of how the noise limiter was set. He reported that he and the applicant were desperately keen to comply with Environmental Heath’s requirements and that any conditions would be strictly complied with relative to noise attenuation. Mr. Stevenson expressed a view that the premises were well controlled and the landlord had initiated a dress code to assist with the general control of the premises. He further indicated that their licensee had received no complaints during the time he had been the licensee. It was also suggested that there were problems when people leave the premises and went to a nearby hot food takeaway and he suggested that this was out of the control of the applicant because they had left his premises and that it was an issue for the Police to address. With a view to assisting with keeping noise down he had already provided signs asking people to leave quietly and these would be enhanced. He had also used a public address system within the premises to ask people to leave quietly. Mr. Stevenson also referred to comments made by residents about taxis arriving late at night and making a noise and in fact Mr. Roberts had tried to contact the taxi firms and asked them not to make a noise when they collect their customers. It was suggested that this was a general issue for the Taxi Licensing Authority. However he indicated that if firms did not co-operate with the request from the licensee he would promote other local firms who would do so. In conclusion Mr. Stevenson reminded the Sub Committee of the extensive powers the Police had under the new Licensing Regulations and it was in the applicant’s best interests to comply with all the relevant requirements. Mr. Fuller commented that there had been some communications with the applicant during 2002 to 2005.
14. DECISION The Sub Committee agreed that the application for the licence as submitted be granted as follows:- (i) Supply of Alcohol – Standard Days and Timings Monday to Sunday - Noon to midnight (ii) Regulated Entertainment – Standard Days and Timings Sunday to Thursday - Noon to 11.00 pm Friday and Saturday - Noon to midnight (iii) Seasonal Variations and Non-Standard Timings Temporary Event Notices shall be submitted in respect of such occasions. (iv) Signs Prominent, clear and legible notices shall be displayed at all exists requesting members and guests to respect the needs of local residents and to leave the premises and area quietly.
14. REPRESENTATIONS BY INTERESTED PARTIES Mrs. N. Towell on behalf of affected residents referred to phone calls that had been made to Environmental Health on a regular basis and to five letters of objection had been submitted. Mr. Stevenson indicated that he had not had sight of the letters and that they could therefore not be disclosed. It was agreed that the letters could not be taken into account since they were not received within the statutory time frame. Mrs. Towell stated that the main problem related to excessive noise with live bands and confirmed that music could be heard outside the premises. She indicated the fire doors were kept open as it was the only access to the beer garden. This year there had been two complaints to Environmental Health on 13th and 28th June, 2005. As a result an Environmental Health Officer conducted a survey on 2nd September, 2005, a Friday night. At 10.30 a.m. that evening the officer could hear noise in the street but was unable to contact the complainant within his premises. She also confirmed that upstairs windows were kept open and she indicated that some people advised that they could not sleep in their front bedroom because of the excessive noise coming from the premises. She also expressed a view that the beer garden was also noisy. Mrs. Towell referred to an instance where customers sat on the front wall and on the pavement outside the premises with drinks and that quite often glass was smashed and she herself or other residents brushed it up because of the concern for families in the area. Mrs. Towell confirmed that when any issued was raised with Environmental Health they always got back in touch with her. She expanded upon her concerns regarding noise which came from jukebox, karaoke and live bands. Mrs. Towell also referred to the room from where the music emanated in relation to the location of nearby properties. She also suggested that the beer garden should be moved to the back end of the car park. She stressed that many elderly people lived in the area who were fed up with the disturbance and the mess generated. They were losing sleep through people hanging around outside the premises for more than one hour.
15. REASONS (i) That the permitted hours granted are appropriate to the nature and location of the premises. (ii) To take into account the concerns of local residents regarding noise from the premises on weekdays.
15. REPRESENTATIONS FROM NORTH WALES POLICE Sgt. Andrew Massey presented the views of North Wales Police. He referred to the observations submitted in response to the application and identified the times of operation which were acceptable to the Police. He expanded upon the relevant licensing policy in making those comments. He indicated that he was aware that the premises were on the main road but that there were residences nearby and this had to be taken into account. Mr. Stevenson on behalf of the applicant had confirmed the acceptance of the hours recommended by the North Wales Police
16. REPRESENTATIONS BT POLLUTION CONTROL MANAGER, FLINTSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL In presenting his evidence Mr. Andrew Fuller the Pollution Control Manager of Flintshire County Council indicated his mains reasons for concern. He advised that in 2002 works were carried out to the premises following a history of complaints being made regarding noise nuisance. A statutory notice had been served but withdrawn since the complaints had not been followed through. He indicated that residents were given log sheets to complete but these had not been returned. Mr. Fuller suggested that the main reason for this was the tolerance of people to the licensed premises. He referred in particular to an instance on the 2nd September 2005 when the premises were monitored by Environmental Health. At 10:35 pm when people were still in the beer garden, he indicated that music with a strong base beat could be heard some distance away although it had not been possible to access houses at that time. However, it was likely that the base noise would be audible within those properties. He suggested that the Licensee should manage and patrol the boundaries since the noise was likely to become more audible after 11.00 p.m. Mr. Stevenson suggested that the noise control could well be an issue to be examined as part of negotiations.
16. SUPPLMENTARY INFORMATION The Chairman advised Mr. Thompson if he had concerns regarding any future occasions of noise nuisance that a log be kept and then to report it to the Environmental Health Department who were legally bound to investigate the situation. The County Secretary expanded upon the importance of taking such a log and the fact that all licenses were subject to review as necessary. Approved Date - 1090 -
17. FINAL PRESENATIONS/QUESTIONS a) APPLICANT Mr. Stevenson had indicated that no-one had ever spoken to the licensee regarding any complaints. Mrs. Towell indicated that a lady had telephoned the premises but had been greeted with foul mouthed language in response. In those circumstances residents were not prepared to approach the licensee. It was subsequently confirmed that this incident occurred with the licensee was on holiday and the relief manager was in place. Mr. Stevenson indicated that it was the sort of attitude which the applicant did not condone. Mr. Stevenson further suggested that it may be beneficial that if there were any problems that perhaps the residents or their representatives could meet with the licensee to discuss these. He also indicated that the suggestions for noise control as indicated by the Pollution Control Manager were sensible suggestions. He referred to the problems when people were sitting outside on the wall by the pub and on the steps of the nearby maisonettes and suggested if the door to the beer garden was kept closed it would address the situation and the residents felt that it would help the situation. In response Mrs. Towell indicated her willingness to meet the licensee to address the problems. Mr. Fuller explained how calls regarding noise nuisance were recorded and sought clarification on the level of use of the function room and the suggestion about keeping the door to the beer garden closed after 7.00 p.m. b) RESPONSIBLE AUTHORITIES i) North Wales Police Sgt. Massey reiterated the suggestions regarding the collection of glass bottles and patrolling every 20 minutes outside the premises together with the announcement on the public address system regarding people leaving the premises in a quiet and orderly manner. Councillor Wright asked a number of questions of Mr. Fuller regarding noise levels and he explained how these were measured. Councillor Wright also enquired of Mrs. Towell about the type of unruly behaviour she had referred to and she explained there was often shouting with bad language. He also enquired of the licensee if he served people who were drunk and he confirmed that he did not. Councillor Diskin enquired from Mr. Fuller if the brewery responded positively to the situation raised regarding noise levels and he confirmed that discussions were now ongoing. Councillor Diskin enquired of the licensee regarding the collection of glasses and he explained that he had a glass collector employed on Thursdays to Sundays during the busiest period and he indicated he would do his best to co-operate with local residents. The Chairman asked what the provision was for children attending the premises and the applicant indicated that they were allowed until 7:00 pm. The Chairman also sought clarification on the extent of CCTV operation in the premises and the applicant explained where these were situated and what could be viewed from those cameras. With regard to the allegations of broken glass the Chairman suggested it may be appropriate to ensure that the place was tidied up to prevent risk to local residents. The Assistant County Secretary sought confirmation from the applicants on what they would do to minimise the noise and in particular if they were prepared to comply with the noise setting referred to by the Pollution Control Manager. She also enquired about the arrangements for people leaving the premises and Mr. Stevenson advised that this would be a management issue which the landlord would monitor. The Assistant County Secretary sought clarification from the Pollution Control Manager of what would be the next stage and he indicated that there was an offer to the licensee to discuss what levels of noise would be acceptable and how these would be monitored. He explained the technical details of noise pollution and how they could be monitored. Mr. Stevenson indicated that he would be pleased for his client to liaise with the Environment Health Department on noise limiters and hoped agreements could be reached with local residents. He indicated that the objections in the letters were not relevant to the Crime and Disorder issues and indicated that he wished to be as helpful as possible to the residents. With regard to noise from the taxis from the premises he was hopeful that if the extended hours were granted then it would not be such a concentration of noise and that it might assist that situation. For the sake of clarification the Assistant County Secretary asked for Mr. Stevenson to confirm in writing the conditions that they would be prepared to accept and he did this at the meeting.
18. DETERMINATION OF APPLICATION The Chairman adjourned the proceedings and asked all to leave with the exception of Committee Members, Assistant County Secretary and the Clerk.
19. DECISION The Sub-Committee agreed that the Application be granted as follows:- 1) Supply of Alcohol and provision of Regulated Entertainment Sunday to Thursday - 10:00 am to Midnight Friday and Saturday - 10:00 am to 01:00 am the following morning 2) Closing Hours Sunday to Thursday - 10:00 am to 12:30 am the following morning Friday and Saturday - 10:00 am to 01:30 am the following morning 3) Seasonal Variations / Non-Standard Timings On the following occasions: St. David’s Day St. Patrick’s Day St. George’s Day St. Andrew’s Day Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday on Bank Holiday Weekends Thursday before Good Friday Christmas Eve The premises may supply alcohol and provide regulated entertainment for one additional hour to those detailed in paragraph 1 above and close 30 minutes later. 4) Occasions of Local National or International Significance and Charity Events These must be the subject of Temporary Events Notices as and when they arise. 5) Entertainment Noise A scheme for the control of noise emitted from the premises, include setting levels for control of noise at source, shall be submitted to and approved by the Chief Environment and Resources Officer prior to the implementation of extended hours for regulated entertainment. 6) External Areas Staff shall patrol the outside of the premises every 20 minutes to collect glass receptacles and to remind patrons to be mindful of the needs of local residents. 7) Public Address System The public address system shall be used at the end of the evening to remind customers to leave quietly and not take open bottles or glasses with them. 8) Notices Prominent, clear and legible notices shall be displayed in the beer garden area to remind patrons to leave quietly and respect the needs of local residents. 9) Fire Exit Except in emergencies, the side door of the premises leading onto the beer garden shall be kept closed from 7.30 pm onwards.
20. REASONS i) The permitted hours granted are appropriate to the nature and location of the public house and are in accordance with the Police recommendations to prevent public nuisance. ii) The willingness of the Licensee to accept the condition in relation to noise attenuation as requested by the Pollution Control Manager
21. SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION The Chairman in thanking Mrs. Towell and her colleagues for attending advised them of the procedures whereby if they had any concerns they should contact the Pollution Control Manager who would arrange with them for any calls to be logged and the situation be kept under review. He also advised them of the strong powers the Licensing Sub Committee had in relation to review of any licences. Approved Date - 966 - |
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