| Minutes: | LICENSING SUB COMMITTEE 18th JULY, 2005 Minutes of the meeting of the Licensing Sub Committee of Flintshire County Council held on Monday, 18th July, 2005 in County Hall, Mold, Flintshire. PRESENT: Councillor L.A. Sharps (Chairman) Councillors A.G. Diskin and J.J. Griffiths OFFICERS OF FLINTSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL County Secretary, Licensing Manager and Principal Administration Officer. RESPONSIBLE AUTHORITIES - REPRESENTATIVES Sgt. Colin Jones - North Wales Police, Mr. A.G. Fuller, Pollution Control Manager, Flintshire County Council. APPLICANT/AGENTS: Mrs. K. Loftus, Mr. R. Moffat, Mrs. S. Breadwell. INTERESTED PARTIES: K.F. Hughes, B.S. Hughes, I. Willis, G.L. Willis, R. Bustion, E. Bustion, I.M. Ball, J. Roberts, L.B. Roberts and D. Jones.
1. REPORT OF THE DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENT AND REGENERATION The Sub-Committee considered the report of the Director of Environment & Regeneration which was presented by the Licensing Manager in respect of an application for a premises licence for Offa’s Dyke, Broughton.
2. THE APPLICATION – Offa’s Dyke, Broughton An application for a premises licence was submitted by Spirit Group Limited The premises was described as a public house selling alcohol for consumption both on and off the premises. There was no restriction on the hours during which members of the public may be present on the premises. Recorded music may be played throughout the premises. There was an external area adjacent to the premises which was used for the consumption of alcohol purchased at the premises The premises operated to the standard licensing hours of 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Monday to Saturday plus 20 minutes drinking up time (except for Christmas Day hours and the 36 hours opening period on New Years Eve/New Years Day that all licensed premises were allowed) Recorded music or music by a single performer or two performers together was permitted by the Section 182 dispensation in the Licensing Act 1964. The licensee was Karen Ann Loftus The application was made in the prescribed manner. It was noted that there had been some temporary difficulties in that the pale blue notices that was required to be displayed to the public was on a number of occasions removed from its location at the footpath by persons unknown, and had to be replaced by the applicant. The notice had however also been displayed in the pub window. The proposed standard hours for the sale of alcohol were:- Monday to Wednesday - 10:00 a.m. to midnight Thursday to Sunday - 10:00 a.m. to 01:00 a.m. the following morning The above hours would also apply for live music, recorded music and dancing. Live music would be limited to a maximum of two performers. The above hours would be extended by one hour on statutory Bank Holiday weekend periods (Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday), for the Thursday before Good Friday and for Christmas Eve. With seven days notice and agreement with North Wales Police the above standard hours would be extended by one hour on St David’s Day, St. Patrick’s Day, St. George’s Day and St. Andrew’s Day, and on occasions of Local, National or International significance or for a Charitable event The proposed standard opening hours of the premises were :- Monday to Wednesday - 09:00 a.m. to 01:00 a.m. the following morning Thursday to Sunday - 09:00 a.m. to 02.00 a.m. the following morning The additional hour proposed for the Bank Holidays, etc. as detailed above would also apply to the standard opening hours. The proposed hours for the Late Night Refreshments (the sale of hot food or drink after 11:00) were:- Monday to Wednesday - 11:00 p.m. to 01:00 the following morning Thursday to Sunday - 11:00 p.m. to 02:00 the following morning The additional hour proposed for Bank Holidays, etc. as detailed in above would also apply to the standard late night refreshment times. Notwithstanding the proposed opening times, the premises may choose to open to the public at any time for non-licensable activities / purposes. Promotion of Licensing Objectives The applicants’ proposals were attached as Appendix 1 to the report.
3. NOTICES AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION Representations had been made by North Wales Police which related to crime and disorder and public nuisance licensing objectives and had been circulated as Appendix 3 to the report. Representations had been made by the Pollution Control Section of Flintshire County Council which related to the public nuisance licensing objective and these were shown as Appendix 4 to the report. 22 representations had been received from residents in the vicinity and they related to the crime and disorder and public nuisance licensing objectives and were shown as Appendix 5 to the report. A location plan was also attached as Appendix 6 to the report.
4. REQUEST FOR THE SUB COMMITTEE TO STAND DOWN Mr. G. Moffat, on behalf of the applicant, advised that a representative of the applicant company was due to attend and her arrival was imminent. He asked the Chairman if it was possible for the Sub Committee to stand down for 10 minutes to allow him to discuss certain issues. The County Secretary advised that the Hearing Regulations required that notice should be given of any person a party wished to call. Mr. Moffat accepted this point but the Chairman felt it was a reasonable request and allowed the Committee to stand down.
5. RESUMPTION OF HEARING Upon the resumption of the hearing Mr. Moffat introduced Mrs. S. Breadwell who was the Area Manager of Spirit Group and in whose operational area the Offa’s Dyke public house was situated.
6. SUBMISSION OF DOCUMENTORY EVIDENCE/REQUEST TO CROSS EXAMINE The Chairman asked questions as determined in the procedure:- (a) The applicants confirmed that they had no additional information to submit. (b) The representative of the North Wales Police indicated that he had no additional information to submit. (c) The representative of the interested parties indicated that they had photographic evidence which they would like to submit. Mr. Moffat, on behalf of the applicant, confirmed that he had no objection to this. (d) All parties requested the opportunity to cross-examine if necessary.
7. HEARING AND DETERMINATION OF THE APPLICATION The Chairman advised that the Sub Committee would proceed to hear and determine the application by reference to the four licensing objectives and that each party would be granted up to 20 minutes to exercise their rights. However he did indicate that in view of the interest in this application, if he felt it appropriate, he would give leeway on the amount of time allocated.
8. FURTHER INFORMATION The Chairman asked the Licensing Officer to confirm whether or not there was anything further to add to the papers in front of the Committee. The Licensing Manager indicated that there had been concerns regarding the removal of notices from outside of the premises by persons unknown. However he was satisfied that a notice was left permanently within the premises for the given period and that an appropriate notice had been published in a local newspaper. In the circumstances he confirmed that the local authority was satisfied that the appropriate action in relation to notices had been undertaken.
9. PRESENTATION BY APPLICANT The Chairman invited the applicant to present the application. Mr. Moffat presented the case. In opening his presentation Mr. Moffat indicated that, although he had no formal instructions, if lesser opening hours than stated on the application were granted these could well suffice. Mr. Moffat indicated that Offa’s Dyke was a village type pub and was widely used by local residents. He explained that rather than the licensee coming to the Licensing Sub Committee on a regular basis for an extension of hours for charitable nights and the like, it was for this reason that the application was made in its current form for an extension of opening hours. He confirmed that it was not the applicant’s intention to stay open for the full hours requested on a regular basis or to run a city like public house. Mr. Moffat reported that the public house was geared towards families. He felt that the fears of additional noise levels being created if there was an extension to hours were unfounded. He reiterated that it was not the intention to attract people from outside the locality and the later hours requested was to accommodate, in the main, charitable events. He confirmed that the applicant would take steps to meet the full licensing objectives and in particular would be seen to employ registered door supervisors. There would be a zero tolerance to illegal drugs and the premises would have the benefit of a disc jockey to assist in making appropriate announcements in relation to prevention of crime and disorder by encouraging people to leave the premises in an orderly manner. Mr. Moffat confirmed that it was a policy for drinking water to be available free of charge. C.C.T.V. cameras were also installed in the premises. The Sub Committee was informed that the applicant proposed to arrange additional patrols around the curtilage of the public house by employees to ensure there was no noise pollution during the hours of opening. It was also the intention to display notices in and around the premises reminding patrons to respect the neighbours. Mr. Moffat also confirmed that soft drinks were also readily available at the premises. With regard to the provisions to protect children from harm the current operation policy allowed for supervised children to be in the premises up until 8.00 p.m. and that there was also a non-smoking area in the public house. The applicant also adopted a proof of age policy. The Chairman brought Mr. Moffat’s attention to the reference in the application to the request for an extension to cover occasions of local, national or international significance and advised that events such as these were subject to a separate procedure of notice and this was acknowledged by Mr. Moffat. The interested parties were local residents who were concerned at the proposed amendments to the licensing hours. They had appointed Mr. D. Jones as their spokesperson, who took the opportunity to cross-examine. Mr. Jones enquired what a “tribute night” entailed and the licensee explained what occurred at this type of event. Mr. Jones queried the need for a microphone if it was intended for only people in the public house to hear. The licensee explained that a microphone was required so that people could hear as others were talking in other parts of the public house. She further explained that the singer in question would have finished the act by 11.00 p.m. Mr. Jones explained that residents found it necessary on occasions to shut their windows to stop the noise coming into their homes. On a general point regarding noise the licensee indicated that not all noise in the area emanated from Offa’s Dyke. By way of example she indicated that she had received phone calls enquiring when a party was due to finish in the public house because of the noise coming from the premises when in fact there was no function being held at that time and it was elsewhere in the area. Mr. Jones raised a query regarding the level of charitable activities at the public house and this was addressed by the licensee. The Pollution Control Manager, made some comments but the Chairman indicated that it would be better if they were made later in the meeting when he presented his evidence Sgt. Colin Jones, on behalf of North Wales Police, sought clarification from Mr. Moffat, in view of his comments at the opening of the meeting, regarding the hours that were requested. Mr. Moffat responded and following further questions by the Chairman confirmed that the hours requested were stated in the application. The Chairman referred to the large number of comments made by local residents regarding their concerns at cooking smells. The licensee indicated that it appeared that the company had submitted a standard application to cover all its premises but that it was her intention not to serve food beyond 8.00 p.m. The Chairman also referred to a letter sent by the Licensing Manager of the company on 7th July, 2005 to which no response had been received. Mr. Moffat was not aware of the letter but the Chairman indicated that if the points were answered prior to the meeting of the Sub Committee it would have been useful and asked that this be conveyed to the company. Following a question by Councillor Griffiths the licensee confirmed that music would stop at 11.00 p.m. Councillor Griffiths, then pursued the point regarding the need to open windows when the weather was particularly warm, as it had been recently, and how noise travelled in these circumstances. However, it was pointed out that it was the intention to operate music on the same terms as present.
10. REPRESENTATIONS BY RESPONSIBLE AUTHORITIES (a) North Wales Police Sgt. Colin Jones indicated that when North Wales Police were making comments on such applications it was necessary to balance the intention of the Government under the conditions of the new Act but also protect the interest of local residents. In making these comments he referred to the guidelines issued by the Department of Culture, Media and Sport and the Council’s own Licensing Policy. Sgt. Jones commented that there appeared to be still some confusion on the requested hours and his comments therefore related to those as submitted in the application. In making his recommendations he differentiated between the usual working week and the weekend for opening hours. He also referred to the comments in this report regarding the membership of the Pubwatch Scheme and accepted that this was no longer relevant. He confirmed that the Police had not had any calls to the premises and there was no record of bad behaviour in terms of calls to the Police. He acknowledged that the current Licensee had been at the premises for some time and upon the benefits of this situation. On a general point regarding noise nuisance he explained that such occurrences were usually late at night and in these circumstances it was unlikely that anyone would be available from the Local Authority to address the problem and therefore it was the Police who received the calls. In this respect it was usual that these type of calls came within a comparatively short time period and often from a number of locations and he could not guarantee how quickly the Police could respond to such a call. However he again stressed that he was making no criticism of the current Licensee but was making a general point. Mr. Jones on behalf of the Residents sought clarification on the hours recommended by Sgt. Jones. In acknowledging Mr. Jones’ concerns Sgt. Jones referred to the review procedure whereby if there were any problems there was always the arrangement whereby the Sub-Committee could review the application. Sgt. Jones also responded in relation to the level and type of Police patrols. To reassure residents Sgt. Jones explained that although no additional funding had been made available as a result of the revision in Licensing Laws arrangements were in place to address the situation in Police terms. (b) Pollution Control Manager In making his presentation the Pollution Control Manager indicated that his comments had taken into account the spirit of the new Licensing Act and that he did not wish to be heavy handed in dealing with such issues. However, he was aware of the close proximity of residential properties to the public house and the necessity to keep the noise at a reasonable level. He referred in particular to the conservatory area where there was a considerable glazed area and the difficulty of noise control in such circumstances. The Pollution Control Manager reported that there were mechanical devices available which could prevent noise pollution at source. He suggested that noise increased when the premises were busy and in these circumstances staff could be engaged in the usual duties and not have the opportunity to patrol the premises. Following the presentation Mr. Moffat enquired if any formal assessment had been undertaken and if the Pollution Control Manager had in fact visited the premises when music was being played. He also asked if the lining to the vent had been examined. The Pollution Control Manager confirmed that he had not visited the premises when music was playing but his comments were based on his experience and the affect that this proposal would have if the hours were extended in line with those requested in the application. He acknowledged that if music stopped at 11.00 pm then it would be no different to the current situation. As the discussion prolonged it was apparent that the applicant was not seeking to extend the hours when music could be played. The Pollution Control Manager indicated that the thrust of his comments related to the fact that it was clear in the application that there was a request to extend these hours.
11. REPRESENTATIONS BY INTERESTED PARTIES The interested parties were local residents who were concerned at the proposed amendments to the licensing hours and they had appointed Mr. Doug Jones as their spokesperson. Mr. Jones provided photographs which Mr. Moffat on behalf of the applicant confirmed that he had seen. Mr. Jones indicated that although he was a spokesperson Mr. and Mrs. Hughes had undertaken a considerable amount of preparatory work. In opening his presentation Mr. Jones reported on the close proximity of a number of properties to the premises and advised that the range of objections was made up from residents with the 25 to 65 years age range. Mr. Jones indicated upon the main areas of concern which initially related to noise as a result of such things as car doors being closed, taxis arriving later at night because of the extended hours. He commented that noise could be generated not necessarily by excessive behaviour but by people merely communicating late at night. He also referred to the removal to rubbish skips late at night of beer bottles. Mr. Jones commented upon the smells of cooking coming from the premises and enquired how often the filters were changed. He acknowledged that the situation, on occasions, had improved but then appeared to deteriorate again. The residents’ main concern was anti-social behaviour and Mr. Jones quoted examples of this; damage to flower beds, windows being broken and similar. He indicated that two persons had given their names and addresses in support of these comments, which he was prepared to give to the Chairman of the Sub-Committee but did not wish the names to be widely distributed. Mr. Jones commented that by far the worst instances were people urinating and vomiting in people’s gardens. The residents also felt that if extended hours were allowed at these premises it would encourage customers from other public houses, which had closed earlier, to converge at Offa’s Dyke late at night. The residents were also concerned that sports events televised late in the evening, which he referred to as “beamed sport” could encourage noisy behaviour at the premises. Mr. Jones commented that the notices advertising events at the premises were substantially larger than that notice advising of the proposed change in licensing hours. He acknowledged the points made earlier by Sgt. Jones regarding police staffing levels but confirmed that if there was a problem at the premises the residents only course of action was to contact the Police. In summary Mr. Jones asked the Sub-Committee to reject the application in its entirety. Mr. Moffat referred to the incident identified by Mr. Jones when he gave a date when bottles were moved to the skips late in the evening. The applicant confirmed that this did happen on that occasion but it was done in error by the person concerned and was the only instance of this taking place. Mr. Moffat also asked, regarding smells, if there was any firm evidence from the residents that these smells were in fact coming from the premises or whether they could be coming from neighbours’ houses. Whilst not being able to give firm evidence Mr. Jones indicated that the smell was a distinctive “burger type” smell which was consistent with the food being cooked at the premises. Mr. Moffat then suggested that if cooking stopped at 8.00 p.m. it would not have a bearing on the request for extended hours. With regard to the allegations of anti-social behaviour Mr. Moffat enquired from Mr. Jones if he had any firm evidence that the incidents he referred to were caused by the clientele of the Offa’s Dyke Pub. Whilst not being able to provide evidence that this was the case Mr. Jones indicated that the incidents appeared to coincide with the current closing hours of the public house. Mr. Moffat referred to a statement made by Mr. Jones regarding his concern about beamed sport and sought clarification in relation to this comment. Mr. Jones indicated that with the advent of satellite television sporting events from around the world were shown at licensed premises and these often continued until late in the evening. Mr. Moffat referred to his earlier comments about noise control and felt that this would not be a problem. In expanding upon this he referred to the comments of Sgt. Jones earlier in the meeting whereby he had confirmed that the Police had not been called to any incidents at this public house and to the fact that there was no objection from the Police.
13. FINAL PRESENTATIONS (a) Interested Persons Mr. Jones in his final summing up indicated that the residents at Broughton wished matters to remain as they were and that there should be no extension to the hours. (b) Applicant Mr. Moffat referred again to the Police’s views and in particular to the comments relating to Thursday evenings and how the Committee may wish to consider that point. He also commented that the Pollution Control Manager had not heard the music from the premises and that with the current proposals for the finishing of music at 11.00 p.m. and food at 8.00 p.m. it would be no different to the current arrangement. He acknowledged that there was a single incident with bottles being moved late at night but that had been addressed. He stressed that the applicant did not wish to ride roughshod over local residents but wished for the premises to be a part of the community but felt that the comments made at present were unfounded. In making these comments he referred to the hedges and walls around the premises which assisted with the general management of the premises. (c) North Wales Police In addition listened to his earlier comments Sgt. Jones referred to the situation in relation to the tables and benches outside the premises and suggested a time restriction for this facility . (d) The Pollution Control Manager In view of the comments at the hearing the Pollution Control Manager assumed that the Applicant had no intention to seek an extension of hours for the serving of food and playing of music. This was confirmed by Mr. Moffat who also confirmed, following a question from the Chairman, that the existing time for food to be cooked until 8.00 p.m. would remain.
14. DETERMINATION OF APPLICATION The Chairman adjourned the proceedings and asked all to leave with the exception of Committee Members, County Secretary and the Clerk
15. DECISION (i) The Sub-Committee agreed that the application be granted as follows :- The supply of alcohol of Sundays to Thursday to end at 12.00 midnight with the premises closed at 12.30 Friday to Saturday - The supply of alcohol should end at 01.00 a.m. and the premises close at 1.30 a.m. These hours to be extended by one hour on Bank Holidays and Saints Days in accordance with the application (ii) That with regard to the beer garden that alcohol be allowed to be served until 11.00 p.m. with the garden to be closed at 11.30 p.m. and that to apply on every day. (iii) That Live music and recorded music be allowed until 11.00 p.m. noting that incidental music would be allowed for the extended hours. (iv) That the request to extend hours to serve food be refused
16. REASONS (i) That the permitted hours granted, are appropriate to the nature and location of the public house and are in accordance with Police recommendations (ii) That with regard to amplified music, the applicant indicated that it was the intention for it to cease at 11.00 p.m. (iii) That with regard to the sale of food that the applicant did not require the extension as there would be no sales on the evidence in the relevant time frame
17. CONDITIONS (i) That with regard to the placing of refuse such as bottles, into receptacles outside the premises, this takes place at times that will minimise the disturbance to nearby properties. (ii) Noxious smells from the Licensed Premises are not permitted so as to cause nuisance and the premises must be properly vented including the changing of the filters on a regular basis to the satisfaction of the Pollution Control Manager (iii) Noise or vibration does not emanate from the premises so as to cause a nuisance to nearby properties. This to be achieved by a simple requirement to keep doors and windows at the premises closed, or to use Noise Limiters on amplification equipment used at the premises.
18. SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION In conclusion the Chairman indicated that he understood the concerns of local residents but commented upon the provision of the Licensing Act and how it was necessary to address the issues. He stressed the importance of the review procedure and commented about the advice that had been taken from the various responsible authorities in determining the application. Approved DateLicensing Sub Committee - 484 - |
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