Agenda item

From 6.30pm the Committee will be joined by representatives of Town and Community Councils to discuss the following report:-

CODE OF CONDUCT AND TREATING OTHERS WITH RESPECT

• Letter dated 17 September, 2012 from the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales plus revised guidance following the ‘Calver’ Case.

• Open discussion about how the Standards Committee can help Town and Community Councils to promote high standards of ethical behaviour.

That representations be made to the Ombudsman outlining the concerns of the Committee.

The Chairman welcomed representatives of Town and Community Councils to discuss the following report:-

CODE OF CONDUCT AND TREATING OTHERS WITH RESPECT

The Head of Legal and Democratic Services informed Committee that he had recently received revised guidance from the Ombudsman relating to the code of conduct and treating others with respect.  He explained the background to the case.  A town councillor, found to be in breach of the code of conduct, took the Adjudication Panel for Wales to the High Court by way of Judicial Review and was successful.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services explained that while the court found that rude comments had been made about fellow Councillors, as the majority of the comments referred to the way the council was run, they were permissible under his rights to political expression. The Head of Legal and Democratic Services voiced his disappointment at the decision and said that revised guidance by the Ombudsman, which was based upon the case, appeared to give the right to Councillors to be rude to other Councillors, council officers and clerks.  He added that the Welsh Local Government Association may be seeking to challenge this decision.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services cited a case in England whereby a councillor, alleged to have displayed rude behaviour was successfully found to be in breach of the code of conduct.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services said that he would locate the article about the English councillor and circulate it. He added that this case could be brought to the attention of the ombudsman should any future cases emerge.

The Head of Legal and Democratic Services invited questions from those present.

Councillor H.J. McGuill commented that the revised guidance meant that councillors no longer had to treat councillors or council officers with respect.  She was concerned that council meetings would subsequently be difficult to manage.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services said that a County Council or Town and Community council’s rules of debate would still apply and that Chairs could exclude committee members from a meeting, but not find them in breach of the Code of Conduct.  Councillor McGuill asked if this meant a councillor had the freedom to insult another councillor.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services explained that the insult would have to be based around political expression, such as a criticism of a service, policy or aspect of administration which called into question the competency of a portfolio holder in cabinet, councillor or officer.

Mr M. Roberts said that this decision would be a backwards step which could harm the culture of respect which had been established.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services replied that it would be difficult to create a voluntary agreement which outlined the higher standards of conduct as such a document might also risk being struck down by the courts .  However, he added that the Standard Orders could explain more explicitly the types of conduct likely to lead to eviction in an effort to set clear expectations of the sort of behaviour that would be acceptable.

Ms J. Hough asked if the WLGA would consider mounting a challenge to the revised guidance.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services said that the Chair of WLGA had emailed all Chief Executives for feedback.  He said that Pembroke had responded and that he had responded on behalf of Flintshire.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services said it was anticipated that the matter would be an agenda item at the next ACES meeting on 5 October 2012.

Councillor A.W. Woolley said that if a councillor directed personal insults to another councillor during a meeting, the Chair could eject them, but if they used an insult coupled with a political reference, the Chair would be powerless to act.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services said that good chairmanship can avoid this and suggested that rigorous enforcement of the convention that all comments be directed through the Chair could help to reduce tension and prevent arguments from becoming heated or personal.

Councillor H. J. McGuill said that the Ombudsman had previously spent a lot of time looking at complaints and she understood why the revised guidance had been put in place. She said that the new guidance, however, did not convey any sense of the respect agenda.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services said that he would be feeding this back to the Ombudsman.  He said that this was only one decision and might, in the future, be tested and re-interpreted.

Ms J. Hough asked why the Adjudication Panel could not appeal.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services said that the Ombudsman was advised not to appeal as it was unlikely that they would win the case.

The Head of Legal and Democratic Services said that there was the possibility of a fourth training session for Town and Community Councillors, to be hosted by Saltney Town Council which could cover the code of conduct.  Councillor R. Lloyd was asked to speak to Saltney Town Clerk to arrange the event, to be presented by The Head of Legal and Democratic Services and the Democracy and Governance Manager.

Councillor H.J. McGuill asked if a future training session could include the different roles of town and community councillors and clerks and the decision making process.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services said that they could cover the role of the clerk and expectations.  He said that he and the Democracy & Governance Manager can offer advice to any councillor or clerks though if approached by a councillor then in order to get the full facts they would be likely to speak to the clerk as well.

The Chair asked that the minutes of this meeting be distributed to all Town and Community Councils.

Gareth Roberts offered to circulate any additional Flintshire guidance to all the clerks in the area.  The Chair suggested that guidance could be circulated to the North Wales Forum.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services said that he would find out what other county councils were offering in the way of training.

Mr M. Roberts said he could not anticipate training needs until issues arose.  He said that it would be a great help if the monitoring officer was available to deal promptly with a matter.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services reiterated that he was happy to advise town and community councils.

The Chair asked if the Flintshire website could build up a resource area for town and community councils and post regular Q&A sections.

Councillor A. Woolley said that it was difficult to know which issues would emerge, and that information was available on the Ombudsman’s web site.

The Head of Legal and Democratic Services then invited comments on the level of support available to town and community councils from the Standards Committee.

Councillor H.J. McGuill said that she preferred to contact the Head of Legal and Democratic Services in the first instance, rather than One Voice Wales.  She said that she would like all town and community councils to be aware of the support available from the county council.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services said that he would write to all town and community councils on this matter.

Mr M. Moriarty asked if the Head of Legal and Democratic Services could be contacted via email.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services circulated his email address gareth.owens@flintshire.gov.uk to the group.  Mr M. Moriarty asked if there was a standard form for declarations of interest at town and community councils.  Mr M. Moriarty said that his town council has produced their own forms.  The Head of Legal and Democratic Services asked that a copy of the form be sent to him. Mr I. Jones said that standard forms were used at his town council.  Ms. E. Snowden said that she had sent a declaration of interest form from her community council to County Council the previous week.

The Head of Legal and Democratic Services asked the committee to decide how they wished to proceed on the alternative recommendations in his report, whether they noted the advice or wished to make representations to the Ombudsman.   The Democracy & Governance Manager said that he was concerned that the judgment could allow politicians to be less respectful to officers.

Councillor A. Woolley said that representations should be made and concurred with the Democracy and Governance Manager’s comments.

Councillor H. J. McGuill said she was not happy with the revised guidance as she believed it went against the agenda for respect.

RESOLVED:

That representations be made to the Ombudsman outlining the concerns of the Committee.