LICENSING SUB COMMITTEE 24th AUGUST, 2005 Minutes of the meeting of the Licensing Sub Committee of Flintshire County Council held at County Hall, Mold on Wednesday, 24th August, 2005. PRESENT: Councillor J.J. Griffiths (Chairman) Councillors S.R. Baker and P.J. Walkden. OFFICERS OF FLINTSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL: Assistant County Secretary, Licensing Manager and Principal Administration Officer. RESPONSIBLE AUTHORITIES - REPRESENTATIVES: Messrs. E. Williams and S. Neale, North Wales Fire and Rescue Service APPLICANTS/AGENTS: Mr. A. Thomas on behalf of Punch Taverns plc. 1. DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST None were received. 2. REPORT OF THE DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENT AND REGENERATION The Sub-Committee considered the report of the Director of Environment & Regeneration which was presented by the Licensing Manager in respect of an application for a premises licence for The Hare and Hounds, Connah’s Quay. 3. THE APPLICATION – The Hare and Hounds, 315 High Street, Connah’s Quay An application for a premises licence was submitted by Ford & Warren Solicitors on behalf of Punch Taverns plc. The premises were described as a large main road building operating as a public house. The premises had two trading rooms and an outside drinking area. The application related to variation in the form of an additional hour (additional two hours on Fridays and Saturdays) for alcohol sales with a further hour on Bank Holidays and Public Holidays. The closing time would be thirty minutes after these hours. Recorded music and live music limited to two performers was also applied for in line with the above hours. The Licensee was Margaret McDonnell. 4. BACKGROUND The application had been advertised. There had been no representations other than from the North Wales Fire and Rescue Service. 5. PROMOTION OF THE LICENSING OBJECTIVES The public safety licensing objective in the application stated “I hold a Health and Safety Certificate and have carried out a full Disability Discrimination Assessment at the premises. I have a smoking policy in place at the pub”. 6. NOTICES AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS Representations had been made by the North Wales Fire and Rescue Service in relation to the public safety licensing objective and were detailed in Appendix 1 to the report. 7. SUBMISSION OF DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE/REQUEST TO CROSS EXAMINE The Chairman asked questions as determined in the procedure:- (a) The applicants confirmed that they had no additional information to submit. (b) The representative of the North Wales Fire and Rescue Service indicated that he had no additional information to submit. (c) All parties requested the opportunity to cross examine, if necessary. 8. HEARING AND DETERMINATION OF THE APPLICATION The Chairman advised that the Sub Committee would proceed to hear and determine the application by reference to the four licensing objectives. 9. FURTHER INFORMATION The Chairman asked the Licensing Officer to confirm whether or not there was anything further to add to the papers in front of the Committee. The Licensing Manager confirmed that there was not. 10. PRESENTATION BY APPLICANT The Chairman invited the applicant to present the application. Mr. Thomas presented the case. In opening his presentation Mr. Thomas referred to the Guidance issued under the Licensing Act 2003 and to government policy in relation to the Act and the general principle of its support for the longer opening of licensed premises. He advised of the current fire prevention procedures in place and felt that these were adequate in relation to the premises. He suggested that any restriction should be based on history and there was no record of problems at the premises which had been running successfully for a number of years. He felt that there was nothing to suggest that the requested additional hours would result in any problems. Mr. Thomas also gave a view that there was existing legislation in place which could address any problems and he referred to the principle of the Licensing Act whereby it should not duplicate other legislation. 11. REPRESENTATIONS BY RESPONSIBLE AUTHORITIES North Wales Fire and Rescue Service Mr. E. Williams, on behalf of the North Wales Fire and Rescue Service, responded to Mr. Thomas’ point relative to the legislation he quoted. He explained that the legislation relative to work place was, in the main, for the benefit of employees who were aware of the layout of the building and not necessarily for customers. The other legislation quoted (S10 Fire Precautions Act), he felt, was only used in extreme circumstances where there was serious immediate cause for concern and the premises had to be closed. With regard to the Hare and Hounds Mr. Williams confirmed that an individual risk assessment had been undertaken on 8th July, 2005. He referred to the “Primrose Guide” which was recommended standards for means of escape and other fire precautions in such premises. Mr. Thomas challenged whether it was appropriate for the Primrose Guide to be considered at this stage and for the benefit of the Sub Committee Mr. Williams explained the background to the preparation of the Guide and that it aims to set acceptable standards of safety. Mr. Williams reported that there was no fire alarm in the building but because the areas which were open to the public could be viewed from the bar area they were satisfied that a manually operated alarm was sufficient. He explained that “the last order” bell would suffice. He explained why he felt it was appropriate for emergency exit signs to be erected against the entrances. There was an issue with the fire extinguishers but he was happy that this would be addressed. Members of the Sub Committee asked a number of questions of Mr. Williams and for clarity he identified on the plan the exits to which he referred. Councillor S.R. Baker made a specific point regarding the exit signs and it was confirmed that it was unnecessary to create a new exit but merely to provide an appropriate sign to one which was already in place. The Assistant County Secretary sought clarification on the status of the Primrose Guide and if in fact it was a duplication of other legislation. Mr. Williams confirmed that it did not contradict any other legislation but brought it all together and was a benchmark for considering such applications. Councillor P. Walkden sought confirmation that the proposed manual fire alarm was sufficiently clear to be effective in a case of emergency. Mr. Williams confirmed that he was satisfied and explained that this type of arrangement was not unusual. 12. FINAL PRESENTATIONS (a) Applicant Mr. Thomas indicated that much of the representations from the North Wales Fire and Rescue Service were based on the Primrose Guide and he felt that this should have been disclosed and that it was not part of government legislation. He suggested that these were further representations after the fact and reiterated his earlier view that there was sufficient legislation already in place to deal with any issues raised by the North Wales Fire and Rescue Service. (b) North Wales Fire and Rescue Service In support of the points raised earlier by Mr. Williams, Mr. S. Neale indicated that the use of the Primrose Guide was communicated to the licensing authority. He stressed that this was only used as a guide and their comments in relation to the premises now under consideration was based on an individual separate risk assessment of the premises. He confirmed that all premises, whereby such comments were made, were individually inspected and it is on that basis that their comments are made. 13. DETERMINATION OF APPLICATION The Chairman adjourned the proceedings and asked all to leave with the exception of Committee Members, Assistant County Secretary and the Clerk. 14. DECISION The Sub Committee agreed that the application be granted subject to the implementation of the recommendations of the North Wales Fire and Rescue Service by the Second Appointed Day. 15. REASONS In the interests of promotion of the licensing objective relating to public safety. Approved DateLicensing Sub Committee - 518 -
